Kevo writes:

On Mar 31, 4:34*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Kevo writes:
[...]
By what standards do you recognize make a good pu-er?

ISO-7542-PU, principally.

Seriously, this is a big subject. *But roughly, I would say that I
like complexity, strength, balance, smoothness, involvement of the
whole sensory apparatus from the tip of the tongue through the throat,
and support of many varied steeps. *Do I expect all of these,
especially in a young Pu'er? *Not really, but I'm willing to be
surprised.

Hi Lew, indeed! Principally this is a big subject, in reality, it is
also a very complex subject as well.

ISO-7542-PU is not a good pu-er 2 be cited for standards, IMHO. From
its first production in the 80s 2 present, the only things I can say
is constant with this tea are that the flavors are typical of
cultivated plants in the Meng Hai region.

Sorry about the nerdy joke: there is no such thing as ISO-7542-PU.
And I don't have any particular allegiance to Menghai's 7542 series.

Quality: A young pu-er made from the cultivated plants would probably
give you the complexity involving the whole sensory apparatus that you
write about, but a young pu-er made from old, wild trees might not -
that may not be an indicator of good pu-er or poor pu-er, it is just
that the maocha used are different.

Strength: A young Yi Wu pure region pu-er might taste close 2 being
bland, a young Yi Wu blended with other types of maocha might taste
fuller in the mouth & lasts more steeps. The taste of the young pu-er
might increase in strength in the years 2 come, but so might the
blended one. So strength may not necessarily indicate a good pu-er.

I wasn't claiming to be able to predict how a tea will behave when
aged based on how good it is to drink now. That's the real problem,
and I'm skeptical of what I've read on the subject, as I said earlier.

Balance: I don't understand what you mean by this qualifier...

By "balance", admittedly a vague term, I mean that the tea shouldn't
have too much of one attribute without some countervailing quality.
If it's bitter in its principal taste, there should be sweetness too,
perhaps in its aftertaste. If it's astringent on the tongue, there
should be softness or smoothness somewhere else, maybe in the throat.

Smoothness: Similarly, a young wild grown arbor pu-er might give you a
smoother taste than one from the cultivated stock; while an aged twig
& large leaves 40 years old pu-er might give you a smoother taste than
a young banzhang from the cultivated stock. Does that make the old tea
is good quality tea? I don't think so, it is smooth because it is well
aged...

Right. I don't see the point in comparing new and old tea. And as
you don't exactly say out loud, it's at least conceivable that, given
enough time in good storage conditions (another big subject), *any*
decent Pu'er will be great to drink.

If you do not really expect all of these in a pu-er, especially in a
young pu-er, then how do you determine if the pu-er you have is a good
pu-er, & that it will age well?
Or do you believe that a good pu-er is one that tastes awful when
young & mellow when aged?

I. Don't. Know.

IMPO, a good pu-er must 1st fulfill the criteria 2 age well, & this
criteria must have 2 main factors: correct processing of the maocha -
we know there are 2 main types of Yun Nan maocha: Dian Lü & Dian Qing.
Dian Lü was the main maocha produce in Yun Nan, for making green tea,
Dian Qing is the main maocha produce in Yun Nan persuing the Pu-er
heat, & used in the making of pu-er. If a pu-er is processed with Dian
Lü maocha, then while it tastes good when newly made, it might not age
well.

As I understand it, these are two different manufacturing processes
(Dian Qing not being fully kill-greened) rather than two different
cultivars. Do you agree?

The other factor is the aging method, which is a complicated
discussion in itself.

Amen, brother.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html