On Mar 31, 4:34*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Kevo writes:
On Mar 30, 8:08*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Kevo writes:
On Mar 29, 10:06*am, cha bing wrote:
Is there such a thing as pu-er that is too old?

[...1920s tea isn't necessarily too old...]

On the other hand, one cannot ignore the quality & production
process of the pu-er - a low quality maocha & poor production
process pu-er made in the recent years might not even last a decade.

This sounds reasonable, but I wonder how much is really known about
how a Pu'er's characteristics at birth influence its quality decades
later. *Is there a way to know what some of the great old teas were
like as maocha? *Were they "quality tea" by standards we would
recognize?

How we determine boils down 2 how much we know about the specific type
of tea, isn't it?

Yes, exactly. *I don't recall ever reading anything persuasive about
what the various blends of maocha that went into historic cakes were
like. *By "persuasive", I mean based on contemporary observation and
tasting, not extrapolation back from what the aged cakes are like
now. *But I read about tea in English...

& you raised 1 important question:

By what standards do you recognize make a good pu-er?

ISO-7542-PU, principally.

Seriously, this is a big subject. *But roughly, I would say that I
like complexity, strength, balance, smoothness, involvement of the
whole sensory apparatus from the tip of the tongue through the throat,
and support of many varied steeps. *Do I expect all of these,
especially in a young Pu'er? *Not really, but I'm willing to be
surprised.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

Hi Lew, indeed! Principally this is a big subject, in reality, it is
also a very complex subject as well.

ISO-7542-PU is not a good pu-er 2 be cited for standards, IMHO. From
its first production in the 80s 2 present, the only things I can say
is constant with this tea are that the flavors are typical of
cultivated plants in the Meng Hai region.

Quality: A young pu-er made from the cultivated plants would probably
give you the complexity involving the whole sensory apparatus that you
write about, but a young pu-er made from old, wild trees might not -
that may not be an indicator of good pu-er or poor pu-er, it is just
that the maocha used are different.

Strength: A young Yi Wu pure region pu-er might taste close 2 being
bland, a young Yi Wu blended with other types of maocha might taste
fuller in the mouth & lasts more steeps. The taste of the young pu-er
might increase in strength in the years 2 come, but so might the
blended one. So strength may not necessarily indicate a good pu-er.

Balance: I don't understand what you mean by this qualifier...

Smoothness: Similarly, a young wild grown arbor pu-er might give you a
smoother taste than one from the cultivated stock; while an aged twig
& large leaves 40 years old pu-er might give you a smoother taste than
a young banzhang from the cultivated stock. Does that make the old tea
is good quality tea? I don't think so, it is smooth because it is well
aged...

If you do not really expect all of these in a pu-er, especially in a
young pu-er, then how do you determine if the pu-er you have is a good
pu-er, & that it will age well?
Or do you believe that a good pu-er is one that tastes awful when
young & mellow when aged?

IMPO, a good pu-er must 1st fulfill the criteria 2 age well, & this
criteria must have 2 main factors: correct processing of the maocha -
we know there are 2 main types of Yun Nan maocha: Dian Lü & Dian Qing.
Dian Lü was the main maocha produce in Yun Nan, for making green tea,
Dian Qing is the main maocha produce in Yun Nan persuing the Pu-er
heat, & used in the making of pu-er. If a pu-er is processed with Dian
Lü maocha, then while it tastes good when newly made, it might not age
well. The other factor is the aging method, which is a complicated
discussion in itself.

Kevo