On 20 Mar, 23:25, Rupert wrote:
On Mar 21, 7:57 am, dh@. wrote:





On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:56:27 -0700 (PDT), Rupert wrote:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about how to proceed. I might
include a discussion of R. M. Hare's views, in particular his essay
"Why I am Only a Demi-Vegetarian". That might do something by way of
addressing your points.

* * You could consider the lives of everything. You could compare
the lives of broiler chickens of 6-8 weeks, with those of any wild
birds who live for that period of time or less. You could do the same
with battery hens and cage-free egg producers. If you do it open
mindedly I don't see how you could come to the conclusion that
no livestock animals' lives are or could be worth living, especially
comparing them with equivalent length lives of wildlife.

Your question about whether speciesism can be
"justified" in nonhuman animals strikes me as ill-posed.

* * Saying that only humans need worry about the "rights" of
other creatures and whether or not we are speciesist, seems
very speciesist to me. Even in trying to avoid it you still end up
doing it anyway.

There will
probably be some discussion of this point in the project as well.

* * Will you include that fact that if we didn't remain speciesist
we would eventually be overtaken by animals who are, or
haven't you thought it through to the point of accepting that
fact?

I do not currently have any preconceptions about what conclusion I
will arrive at.

* * My guess is that you want to support the elimination
objective.

It is probably best to let me finish my thesis and write up the first
chapter before we discuss the matter further.

* * That would depend on how open minded you want to be.
If you just want to support the elimination objective then you're
probably ready to go, but if you're actually going to consider
any alternatives to be ethically equivalent or superior then I
get the feeling you haven't even begun the first inch of real
thought in that direction so you should discuss it with people
who have a good bit before you attempt writing about it. Do
AW minded people write anything, or is it only elimination
minded people? Come to think of it, there is tons of propaganda
to support elimination, but damn little to support decent lives.

We've already mentioned R. M. Hare. There's also Carl Cohen. When I
have written the first chapter I will specify which writers and
arguments I'm going to examine and you can give me feedback on how
open-minded you feel I am being.

In my experience when people say things like
"you are so closed minded" what they really mean
is "Why can't you accept that I am right". I'm sure
your essay will be well thought out, addressing most
of the important points and provide a good discussion point.

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