On Mar 20, 11:32Â*am, "James Silverton"
wrote:
"DaleW" wrote in message

...
On Mar 20, 10:58 am, "James Silverton"

wrote:





"DaleW" wrote in message

...
On Mar 20, 10:32�am, "James Silverton"

wrote:

�Steve �wrote �on Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:38:14 +0000:

�?? Would you please expand on "totally different
clonally"
?
�?? It has no obvious meaning to me.

�SS I mean that the clones of Zin in California may be
similar
�SS to each other, but not closely related to the clones of
�SS Pimitivo in Italy.

�SS �Zin and Primitivo have a common ancestor, but clonal
�SS selection in California and Italy could have
effectively
�SS produced two very different grapes for practical
purposes.
�SS In the same way that Pinot Blanc and Pinot Gris are
�SS practically different for example, despite the fact
that
�SS they technically belong to the same variety.

�SS It's pure speculation that the clones are very
different,
�SS but I bet they are not the same clones both sides of
the
�SS Atlantic. �As far as I know no one has done the
research.

�SS But it could be that the differences between California
Zin
�SS and Italian Primitivo might not be totally down to
terroir.

I am still rather puzzled. A clone in genetics is an exact
replica. Cloning, in horticulture and biology, produces an
organism whose genetic information is identical to that
�from
which it was created.

I would suspect that it is usual to grow new vines of Pinot
Blanc and Pinot Gris etc. from cuttings. In this case, the
DNA
sequence for two cuttings is identical even if growers may
try
to select for a particular characteristic. I don't know how
you
can achieve this asexually. Genetics seems to be taking a
beating :-) Since "clonality" is described as the ability to
form clones or the ability to be cloned, it does not seem to
describe a process of selection that might produce different
varieties.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Did you read Bill's link to the WLDG discussion with Carole
Meredith's
explanation? " All clonal variation, on the other hand, arises
as a
result of rare and random somatic mutations (i.e., not sexual)
that
occur in all vines. Sometimes such a mutation has a visible or
otherwise detectable (e.g. aroma difference) effect and a vine
carrying it will be preferentially used for propagation wood
for
new
vineyards. But often it is just chance that one mutation
survives to
the next generation of vineyards and another doesn't. The
mutations
accumulate over time and eventually clones diverge from each
other."

"Somatic" sounds rather mystical to me. Something is either a
clone (exact replica) or it is not tho' two *cuttings* might
differ. Perhaps to enlighten me, you know some references to
scientific papers or published books by authors from, say, U.
Cal, Davis, explaining these terms.

--
Jim Silverton
Potomac, Maryland- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

DaleW Â*I think Carole has retired in last couple years from
UC-Davis,
DaleW but she is probably considered the top expert on grape
genetics
DaleW in the world.

I will have to search libraries for her books since of the two
relevant ones available on Amazon, one is out of my range at
$202 and the other is unavailable. Thanks.

--
Jim Silverton
Potomac, Maryland- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is a little more in depth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinfandel

Genetically duplicates or not.....the wines smell and taste different
to me. Why? The vines themselves? The terroir? The vineyard
techniques or cellar techniques?